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snicker
Administrator
USA
2415 Posts |
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Lord Odin
Private
37 Posts |
 Posted - 11/24/2002 : 3:53:43 PM
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EXCELLENT review. I thought this was one of the best ones to date. I thought you could have gone into the weps a little better like how each one's characteristics seems to be off, the updated HBS, and new weps like tear gas and flashbangs.
I thought you also could have gone into the technical problems that a LOT of people are expierencing (those are the people who aren't playing because it causes too many probs). For example, people will get sound errors or graphical errors that will either give a popup dialog box and stop their game or they will crash with that little message. Another thing I thought could have been mentioned was how sometimes models weren't in their correct positions (like weps above peoples heads) or they would get stuck on a wep and couldn't use it or switch weps.
I also thought the netcode wasn't very good either. It wasn't totally implemented, if i'm not mistaken. The players movements are jerky (even with good pings) and the pings that people do get are usually inconsistent.
I thought if you were gonna address armpatches, you could have at least have addressed these issues as well. |
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GB Crush
Staff
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2002 : 4:38:01 PM
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Yo. Odin, ltns.
Yeah, after reading it up live, there are a hundread, or a thousand issues I want to change and address. Of course, I ramble too much too, if you'll notice, it's a rather hefty 3-pager.
Any time I say something, I like to give it some backing, a more in-depth explination, or an anecdotal account to illustrate things. Still, there was a lot I had to cut from my drafts to get the text down to a reasonable size.
The fact of the matter is, in some cases I had to generalize. There was so much I could point at that was annoying, or even wrong with the demo. Too many bugs and variations on bugs to count, let alone list--it would've bloated the review to do that, not to mention shift the tone away from the fact that I liked it. The hidden potential of the game is not nearly as tangable and a lot harder to describe than some bug.
As for the rest, everyone's already commented on how cool the tear gass efects are, how the HBS works, how gasmasks work, etc. After my review, everyone else will STILL be focusing on that--why should I add one more? Besides, while its good to understand how certain things work, this is a demo...and free. interested parties can grab it and see/figure it out for themselves. They dont need me telling them.
Which basicly left me to write my opinion on the game. It's a bit more opinionated than I'd normaly like, but I felt there had to be somone with an honest approach towards the negative, and someone to mention some issues that places like IGN skip over. In truth, I wish I could've been more detailed...
...but look at this post. I'm rambling again. =) |
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transcendentnb2
Sergeant
USA
193 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2002 : 5:10:03 PM
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It takes too dog-assed long to move in and out of prone positions and the run/walk speed balance is even worse. The reticule is too huge on a run, forcing players to engage everything from a walk if they want to keep on the move, but the walk is so slow that everyone runs from place to place.
Well of course you have to move slow. The idea here is a simulation... Try sprinting with a gun and seeing how accurate you can fire.
It leaves the impressions that the game was designed around making everyone run from place to place and then stopping dead in their tracks to shoot-gone are the days of going dynamic, overcoming an enemy through surprise, speed and ferocity.
Again, if you run into a room and whip your gun around a corner, your aim won't be that great.
Ladders are already notoriously impossible to use, forcing players to not look directly at and not look away from ladders in order to grab hold-and once on, they're almost as impossible to let go of.
Well if you're going to climb a ladder, you do have to put your weapon somewhere. Running by and randomly climbing up a latter while firing off an M14 just doesn't work out right... I do agree with how hard it is to let go of a ladder. Perhaps they could program in an option so if you tap a key, you quickly jump off a laddder, no matter from how high up you are. But even after you let go, you have to regain your balance and ready your weapon again to start shooting.
How did Ubi decide that firing bullets would knock you back, but getting hit by a dozen bullets does nothing to move you?
Never in the game have I been hit by a dozen bullets and live. 1 or 2 do the job.
The only real issues i've had with this game is 1) the doors... you have to be too damn close, 2) the speed requirements. Even with a 900athlon, 640MB Sdram and a Radeon 8500, the game lags. 3) Bugs in the game such as loosing your weapon, getting stuck on a ladder, and even sometimes i see floating ammo mags, HBSs, and other items by themselves. |
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GB Crush
Staff
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2002 : 8:04:50 PM
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Well of course you have to move slow. The idea here is a simulation... Try sprinting with a gun and seeing how accurate you can fire.
I *have* to move slow? That's what's getting me down. To be perfectly honest, I'm fine with the Run Speed. I'd like to see the walk speed bumped up a notch, make it useful for something more than just shooting.
As for tightening the reticule, yes accuracy on the run should be penalized, and a guy standing still should have the advantage. I may want a smaller ret, but it doesnt mean I want uber-small. The smaller weapons, such as the MP 5 should retain better first shot accuracy--and bloom dramaticaly wide and fast for firing on the run...in my opinion of course.
You can still point in the general direction of something while you're moving at the fast-clip. I can go with my bullet missing the target by 5 feet if i try to engage on the run...I can stand it if the bullet misses by 7 to 10 feet, but there's absolutely no reason when running, my first shot should hit the ground two feet infront of me instead of two feet infront of him....my gun is not attached to me by a bungie, and has yet to suffer any recoil penalties.
damnit I'm rambling again.
Well if you're going to climb a ladder, you do have to put your weapon somewhere. Running by and randomly climbing up a latter while firing off an M14 just doesn't work out right... I do agree with how hard it is to let go of a ladder. Perhaps they could program in an option so if you tap a key, you quickly jump off a laddder, no matter from how high up you are. But even after you let go, you have to regain your balance and ready your weapon again to start shooting.
my argument here has nothing to do with firing from the ladder, or how long it takes to get on/off a ladder. It's how dificult it is. Take the ladder into the basement in CSL. If you point your crosshairs at it, you cant get on. If you approach without being close to 90 degrees, you cant get on, if you look away from the ladder you cant get on. Why can I only get on when my view is centered oh, an inch above the ladder? I like to look at something im grabbing, don't you?
Never in the game have I been hit by a dozen bullets and live. 1 or 2 do the job.
A dozen is exageration. I've been hit upwards of 5 times though, rapidly, being sniped across CSL by an mp5. I should think the player would move in some respect. Likewise, taking a 7.62 and living isnt something I'd expect anybody to do, and still be pointing at the same pixle...especially not whan firing of 9mmSD pushes your aim back.
Again, just my opinionated thoughts
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Lord Odin
Private
37 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2002 : 02:14:55 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by transcendentnb2
It takes too dog-assed long to move in and out of prone positions and the run/walk speed balance is even worse. The reticule is too huge on a run, forcing players to engage everything from a walk if they want to keep on the move, but the walk is so slow that everyone runs from place to place.
Well of course you have to move slow. The idea here is a simulation... Try sprinting with a gun and seeing how accurate you can fire.
I'd have to disagree on this one. I've done little experiments like this on my own and found that I can walk a brisk pace fairly accurately. The players aren't sprinting if you look at their animations, but rather a fast walk. When they walk, they walk rather slowly. Both of which should be able to aim fairly accurately. And if that's not good enough for the aim, how bout this one: this is Rainbow. These guys are supposed to be the best in the world at their job. Why shouldn't they be great shots?
I also didn't like the speed with which people move from standing, crouched, and prone positions. I've also tried this and found that I can move a lot quicker (with equipment on) than what is in the game. They seem like they are moving like they are 30lbs overweight (as in fat overweight; not overburden by gear).
Hey, Crush, have any ideas on when a demo patch might be released? I figure if they released the demo this early, they'll want to test their work based on the feedback in a patch. Then they'll know if the community is liking what they have by the time it goes gold. That would make the most sense and I think they have the time to do it with, too.
BTW, do you happen to know if the animations in RVS were motion captured or if they were created by animation artists? I'm leaning towards the latter because some of them don't look quite right. |
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CR6
Administrator
Canada
1950 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2002 : 02:55:39 AM
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Hi Lord Odin!
So far no official word about a demo patch, but I'm guessing there will be one, since the whole point of releasing the demo this early is for them to tweak the multiplayer code.
As for the movements, I'm guessing they are at least based on motion-captured movements, since once again they had Mike Grasso consulting. Both the original R6 and Rogue Spear used motion-captured movements. |
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GB Crush
Staff
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2002 : 9:51:46 PM
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No word on a demo patch yet...though my best sources are through the Raven Shield forums...and to be honest, that place is only so bearable sometimes.
Still, there is some hope that some major changes will be made (at least to the final product). Besides key problems like weapons dissapearing, The Pope (you should remember him from old school days) is now a moderator at the forums, and he started a a thread to discuss movement and ret speed and the like. It was a very well organized, very mature discussion by him and some of the more mature forum goers and aparently Ubi is taking what they say under some serious consideration.
...of course, shortly after about 100 other stupid, crappy, whiney "I want this or I'll never play the game again" type threads popped up. :(
As for movement, I'll have to go with CR6 on this one. Mike Grasso is advising, so even if it isn't motion captured, he's probably got a big hand in it. Movement is still buggy as you can see from the floating operatives, so I'd guess the other problems are due to implimentation too.
Speaking of Mikes. Mike McCoy, the executive producer/director/guy in charge of this project for Ubi is a pretty good guy too with some nice titles to his credit. Of course, considering that he's had absolutely 0 work with any R6 title at all...you'd wonder what Ubi was thinking letting him call all the shots. Just something for the rumor mill :D |
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Cynical Saint
Staff
USA
243 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2002 : 3:48:09 PM
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| Rumors? Rumors? You want rumors? How about RSE was more than slightly "miffed" that R6 was being taken away from them in the first place, let alone to a bunch of developers that have no tactical FPS experience. That of course is just rumor, but how good could MY sources be? :) |
Cynical Saint
I put the Cyn, in Saint
Err, something like that.
---Yeah he used to put a wrench, a stick and a belt on the table and just say..choose. Well, I gotta go with the belt there, Vanna. Yeah, I used to go with the wrench. The wrench, why? Cus' F*** him, thats why.--- |
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GB Crush
Staff
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2002 : 2:54:33 PM
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| I'm going to say your sources are very poor...because if I quote you and say that your sources are very good, you could get in trouble with your sources, yah? :D |
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R63: Raven Shield MP Demo
